1
00:00:00,140 --> 00:00:14,910
[Music]

2
00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:21,830
um

3
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:29,830
[Music]

4
00:00:33,430 --> 00:00:32,069
we're electrifying hosts of exploring

5
00:00:41,350 --> 00:00:33,440
the bazaar

6
00:00:45,350 --> 00:00:44,630
oh god it's kind of chilly over here in

7
00:00:49,110 --> 00:00:45,360
the uk

8
00:00:51,270 --> 00:00:49,120
tim was especially at night

9
00:00:53,510 --> 00:00:51,280
you know the looks like the fog should

10
00:00:55,670 --> 00:00:53,520
start rolling in pretty soon

11
00:00:58,470 --> 00:00:55,680
and and look over there that lighthouse

12
00:01:00,229 --> 00:00:58,480
looks looks really spooky tonight you

13
00:01:03,750 --> 00:01:00,239
can almost imagine that it's a

14
00:01:06,310 --> 00:01:03,760
ufo peeking through the mist

15
00:01:07,750 --> 00:01:06,320
well tim give me those binoculars yup

16
00:01:12,070 --> 00:01:07,760
okay just what i thought

17
00:01:13,990 --> 00:01:12,080
that that isn't a lighthouse it is a ufo

18
00:01:15,670 --> 00:01:14,000
yeah yeah they're pretty much proven

19
00:01:16,870 --> 00:01:15,680
that you can't see the beacon out in the

20
00:01:18,390 --> 00:01:16,880
woods because of a

21
00:01:21,510 --> 00:01:18,400
metal plate that blocks it when the

22
00:01:24,550 --> 00:01:21,520
light revolves in our direction

23
00:01:26,950 --> 00:01:24,560
okay that's such a strange

24
00:01:29,749 --> 00:01:26,960
looking and you know the the military

25
00:01:31,670 --> 00:01:29,759
base has been closed down for years uh

26
00:01:33,990 --> 00:01:31,680
you would think the saucer people would

27
00:01:36,149 --> 00:01:34,000
keep a safe distance from us creepy

28
00:01:37,990 --> 00:01:36,159
tourists

29
00:01:39,350 --> 00:01:38,000
looks like it's ready to land in the

30
00:01:42,230 --> 00:01:39,360
clearing over there

31
00:01:42,870 --> 00:01:42,240
should we approach the craft and welcome

32
00:01:46,389 --> 00:01:42,880
whoever

33
00:01:48,710 --> 00:01:46,399
steps out so we are dealing with

34
00:01:50,310 --> 00:01:48,720
we could be dealing with time travelers

35
00:01:53,190 --> 00:01:50,320
men from another planet

36
00:01:56,310 --> 00:01:53,200
or possibly even a hologram projected by

37
00:01:58,789 --> 00:01:56,320
a secret branch of the c.i.a

38
00:02:01,510 --> 00:01:58,799
well okay maybe our special guest

39
00:02:03,749 --> 00:02:01,520
tonight can fill us in on the details um

40
00:02:05,190 --> 00:02:03,759
i say we split like the wind and head

41
00:02:08,630 --> 00:02:05,200
back to the kcr

42
00:02:11,270 --> 00:02:08,640
studios in balmy las vegas well uh

43
00:02:11,670 --> 00:02:11,280
i'm i'm i'm with you there let's get the

44
00:02:15,030 --> 00:02:11,680
hell

45
00:02:16,630 --> 00:02:15,040
out of here and get get back to balmy

46
00:02:20,229 --> 00:02:16,640
vegas just like you said

47
00:02:25,670 --> 00:02:23,350
this is much better yeah it is

48
00:02:28,470 --> 00:02:25,680
uh yeah well i don't know it's pretty

49
00:02:31,430 --> 00:02:28,480
it's pretty hot out in the desert

50
00:02:33,350 --> 00:02:31,440
yeah but it's a dry heat too oh i hear

51
00:02:37,030 --> 00:02:33,360
that i hear that all the time

52
00:02:39,750 --> 00:02:37,040
it's a dry heat yeah yeah yeah well it's

53
00:02:40,869 --> 00:02:39,760
it's not that dry uh anyway i'm i'm

54
00:02:44,070 --> 00:02:40,879
looking for a big

55
00:02:50,869 --> 00:02:47,589
well just uh uh come and join me here in

56
00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:50,879
southern indiana to him and um

57
00:02:56,949 --> 00:02:54,560
you just stand out in my backyard and

58
00:02:57,910 --> 00:02:56,959
the air around you it's just it's like

59
00:03:00,949 --> 00:02:57,920
one big

60
00:03:02,550 --> 00:03:00,959
swimming pool wow there you go anyway

61
00:03:05,589 --> 00:03:02,560
tim how you doing these days

62
00:03:08,070 --> 00:03:05,599
um i'm doing fine it's uh

63
00:03:10,470 --> 00:03:08,080
like i said it's a typical summer in

64
00:03:12,229 --> 00:03:10,480
indiana so you know you you don't

65
00:03:14,710 --> 00:03:12,239
don't need a swimming pool just uh just

66
00:03:16,869 --> 00:03:14,720
go outside and enjoy the humidity

67
00:03:19,750 --> 00:03:16,879
well there you go and bigfoot is out in

68
00:03:22,869 --> 00:03:19,760
all of his glory

69
00:03:26,229 --> 00:03:22,879
um i have not seen

70
00:03:29,270 --> 00:03:26,239
bigfoot around here now some uh uh

71
00:03:31,589 --> 00:03:29,280
uh big uh black panther types of

72
00:03:32,869 --> 00:03:31,599
the beasties have been have been seen

73
00:03:34,869 --> 00:03:32,879
around here but uh

74
00:03:36,390 --> 00:03:34,879
it's been a long time since uh since

75
00:03:37,670 --> 00:03:36,400
there's been any bigfoot in southern

76
00:03:39,589 --> 00:03:37,680
indiana

77
00:03:41,030 --> 00:03:39,599
well i'm sure that we can conjure up a

78
00:03:44,309 --> 00:03:41,040
few anyway tim

79
00:03:46,630 --> 00:03:44,319
we have an old friend on

80
00:03:47,509 --> 00:03:46,640
this evening uh a friend of the show and

81
00:03:51,910 --> 00:03:47,519
a friend of

82
00:03:55,270 --> 00:03:51,920
us for uh many years uh now um

83
00:03:55,910 --> 00:03:55,280
nick nick nick nick uh redford that's

84
00:03:57,990 --> 00:03:55,920
right

85
00:03:59,110 --> 00:03:58,000
there you go and uh why don't you give

86
00:04:01,670 --> 00:03:59,120
us a uh

87
00:04:03,509 --> 00:04:01,680
skinny on the mini and tell us what nick

88
00:04:06,070 --> 00:04:03,519
has been up to

89
00:04:07,589 --> 00:04:06,080
all right well yeah like you said dick

90
00:04:09,270 --> 00:04:07,599
redford's our guest tonight i

91
00:04:11,509 --> 00:04:09,280
i really don't think that i have to go

92
00:04:14,789 --> 00:04:11,519
into uh too much because uh

93
00:04:17,349 --> 00:04:14,799
he is well known amongst

94
00:04:18,870 --> 00:04:17,359
all of us and all of our listeners but

95
00:04:22,069 --> 00:04:18,880
nick is a full-time author and

96
00:04:22,550 --> 00:04:22,079
journalist specializing in a wide range

97
00:04:25,030 --> 00:04:22,560
of

98
00:04:26,150 --> 00:04:25,040
unsolved mysteries like bigfoot like

99
00:04:29,189 --> 00:04:26,160
this monster ufo

100
00:04:31,909 --> 00:04:29,199
sightings government conspiracies and

101
00:04:32,870 --> 00:04:31,919
other paranormal phenomena tonight we'll

102
00:04:35,510 --> 00:04:32,880
be talking about

103
00:04:36,629 --> 00:04:35,520
uh his most recent books the rental

104
00:04:40,390 --> 00:04:36,639
shroom forest

105
00:04:41,670 --> 00:04:40,400
ufo conspiracy a close encounter exposed

106
00:04:44,070 --> 00:04:41,680
as a top secret

107
00:04:46,070 --> 00:04:44,080
government experiment and hopefully

108
00:04:49,430 --> 00:04:46,080
we'll get a chance to talk about

109
00:04:52,070 --> 00:04:49,440
his uh new book monsters of the deep

110
00:04:53,189 --> 00:04:52,080
which is set to be released on next week

111
00:04:54,950 --> 00:04:53,199
on august 4th

112
00:04:57,110 --> 00:04:54,960
so nick great to have you back on

113
00:04:58,710 --> 00:04:57,120
exploring the bazaar

114
00:05:02,390 --> 00:04:58,720
hey guys well thanks for having me on

115
00:05:04,550 --> 00:05:02,400
again well you you bet you bet your life

116
00:05:05,830 --> 00:05:04,560
hey uh you know i i gotta ask you this

117
00:05:08,230 --> 00:05:05,840
thing i mean uh

118
00:05:09,189 --> 00:05:08,240
i i i gotta ask you this i mean you

119
00:05:12,390 --> 00:05:09,199
could have picked any

120
00:05:15,110 --> 00:05:12,400
ufo case to to write about you got the

121
00:05:16,550 --> 00:05:15,120
material and the uh the resources

122
00:05:18,629 --> 00:05:16,560
why in god's name did you pick

123
00:05:19,029 --> 00:05:18,639
rendleship which has been uh written

124
00:05:21,909 --> 00:05:19,039
about

125
00:05:22,710 --> 00:05:21,919
uh so many times and uh you know i i

126
00:05:25,150 --> 00:05:22,720
must say that i

127
00:05:27,110 --> 00:05:25,160
i kind of feel responsible or at least

128
00:05:28,790 --> 00:05:27,120
semi-responsible for bringing

129
00:05:30,390 --> 00:05:28,800
that case to the attention of the

130
00:05:33,909 --> 00:05:30,400
american public

131
00:05:36,950 --> 00:05:33,919
because uh i published

132
00:05:38,950 --> 00:05:36,960
jenny randall's book on ed from out of

133
00:05:42,150 --> 00:05:38,960
the blue and sold the paperback uh

134
00:05:45,270 --> 00:05:42,160
rights and uh of course we've had peter

135
00:05:46,469 --> 00:05:45,280
uh robinson many many times and i still

136
00:05:49,990 --> 00:05:46,479
consider myself a

137
00:05:52,710 --> 00:05:50,000
a close friend of uh

138
00:05:54,390 --> 00:05:52,720
larry warren and in fact when jim

139
00:05:58,309 --> 00:05:54,400
burroughs came back

140
00:06:04,070 --> 00:06:01,430
family europe he

141
00:06:05,830 --> 00:06:04,080
moved to the phoenix area and we just

142
00:06:06,469 --> 00:06:05,840
happened to be having a ufo conference

143
00:06:10,390 --> 00:06:06,479
out there

144
00:06:13,110 --> 00:06:10,400
so lo and behold i invited burroughs and

145
00:06:14,710 --> 00:06:13,120
larry warren to debate on stage and that

146
00:06:16,950 --> 00:06:14,720
was the first time they had met each

147
00:06:20,230 --> 00:06:16,960
other or

148
00:06:21,670 --> 00:06:20,240
for many many years but again why did

149
00:06:23,270 --> 00:06:21,680
you pick that case and

150
00:06:25,430 --> 00:06:23,280
what can you tell us that's new about

151
00:06:27,590 --> 00:06:25,440
bent waters

152
00:06:28,469 --> 00:06:27,600
well i mean there's no doubt that

153
00:06:31,110 --> 00:06:28,479
rendlesham

154
00:06:32,550 --> 00:06:31,120
as a case is sort of up there you know

155
00:06:34,950 --> 00:06:32,560
along with roswell

156
00:06:36,070 --> 00:06:34,960
and the betty and body hill case in

157
00:06:39,189 --> 00:06:36,080
terms of

158
00:06:41,670 --> 00:06:39,199
people knowing the story and it becomes

159
00:06:42,629 --> 00:06:41,680
having become sort of like an iconic

160
00:06:46,309 --> 00:06:42,639
case within

161
00:06:49,670 --> 00:06:46,319
ufology um but as i'm sure you know

162
00:06:51,029 --> 00:06:49,680
um tim but um over the years rumors have

163
00:06:55,110 --> 00:06:51,039
circulated

164
00:06:57,430 --> 00:06:55,120
that maybe rendlesham wasn't a ufo event

165
00:06:58,469 --> 00:06:57,440
but it was a top secret military

166
00:07:01,629 --> 00:06:58,479
experiment

167
00:07:04,870 --> 00:07:01,639
using um holograms and

168
00:07:07,909 --> 00:07:04,880
hallucinogenics and the reason to

169
00:07:09,110 --> 00:07:07,919
essentially to be um test these

170
00:07:12,150 --> 00:07:09,120
technologies

171
00:07:14,390 --> 00:07:12,160
in a domestic situation um

172
00:07:15,990 --> 00:07:14,400
on on your own troops on your own

173
00:07:19,670 --> 00:07:16,000
personnel and see how they

174
00:07:22,390 --> 00:07:19,680
respond to completely fabricated

175
00:07:24,309 --> 00:07:22,400
but amazing events and see how you know

176
00:07:27,670 --> 00:07:24,319
the the enemy would respond

177
00:07:30,390 --> 00:07:27,680
on the battlefield and you could find

178
00:07:31,430 --> 00:07:30,400
snippets of these rumors of secret

179
00:07:34,230 --> 00:07:31,440
experiments

180
00:07:35,189 --> 00:07:34,240
in most of the writings that's been done

181
00:07:38,550 --> 00:07:35,199
in various

182
00:07:41,909 --> 00:07:38,560
um places and times going back to the

183
00:07:44,710 --> 00:07:41,919
early 1980s but the intriguing thing is

184
00:07:46,150 --> 00:07:44,720
within ufology a lot of people just did

185
00:07:49,350 --> 00:07:46,160
not want to touch

186
00:07:50,390 --> 00:07:49,360
this idea that rendlesham was not a

187
00:07:52,230 --> 00:07:50,400
classic

188
00:07:54,390 --> 00:07:52,240
ufo after all but could have been

189
00:07:55,430 --> 00:07:54,400
something even more disturbing and i

190
00:07:58,070 --> 00:07:55,440
thought well

191
00:08:00,550 --> 00:07:58,080
nobody's really tackled this sort of

192
00:08:02,150 --> 00:08:00,560
other angle you know kind of like the

193
00:08:04,629 --> 00:08:02,160
you know the elephants in the room that

194
00:08:05,189 --> 00:08:04,639
sort of situation nobody wanted to touch

195
00:08:10,309 --> 00:08:05,199
it

196
00:08:12,550 --> 00:08:10,319
and

197
00:08:14,390 --> 00:08:12,560
so that's what i did i sort of followed

198
00:08:17,990 --> 00:08:14,400
every thread and lead

199
00:08:21,430 --> 00:08:18,000
uh various interviews with people um

200
00:08:23,670 --> 00:08:21,440
to and put together within the book um

201
00:08:25,029 --> 00:08:23,680
what i believe is the full story or the

202
00:08:27,909 --> 00:08:25,039
correct story

203
00:08:29,270 --> 00:08:27,919
um that it was some sort of like a

204
00:08:32,630 --> 00:08:29,280
psychological warfare

205
00:08:34,230 --> 00:08:32,640
experiment designed to see how

206
00:08:37,190 --> 00:08:34,240
personnel on the battlefield would

207
00:08:39,909 --> 00:08:37,200
respond to

208
00:08:40,550 --> 00:08:39,919
bizarre we've said but you know we've

209
00:08:43,670 --> 00:08:40,560
heard

210
00:08:46,870 --> 00:08:43,680
the this kind of same scenario uh

211
00:08:49,269 --> 00:08:46,880
before i mean uh howard menger of course

212
00:08:50,870 --> 00:08:49,279
who was one of the uh best known

213
00:08:54,070 --> 00:08:50,880
contactees of the

214
00:08:55,350 --> 00:08:54,080
60s and 70s you know at first he claimed

215
00:08:58,389 --> 00:08:55,360
to have uh

216
00:09:00,310 --> 00:08:58,399
met the very uh wonderful space

217
00:09:01,910 --> 00:09:00,320
woman that landed in his backyard and

218
00:09:03,110 --> 00:09:01,920
his apple watcher there in highbridge

219
00:09:05,030 --> 00:09:03,120
new jersey

220
00:09:06,710 --> 00:09:05,040
and he sat on the rock and was

221
00:09:09,750 --> 00:09:06,720
mesmerized by her

222
00:09:11,990 --> 00:09:09,760
aryan the beauty and um

223
00:09:12,790 --> 00:09:12,000
he had subsequent you know contacts he

224
00:09:15,110 --> 00:09:12,800
claimed

225
00:09:15,829 --> 00:09:15,120
but then when greg barker published his

226
00:09:20,150 --> 00:09:15,839
uh

227
00:09:23,910 --> 00:09:20,160
he wasn't available

228
00:09:26,949 --> 00:09:23,920
for uh interviews and uh for a while

229
00:09:31,990 --> 00:09:26,959
at least he was

230
00:09:33,670 --> 00:09:32,000
suggesting that there was some sort of

231
00:09:35,990 --> 00:09:33,680
government i don't know if you would say

232
00:09:39,910 --> 00:09:36,000
intervention but he was uh asked

233
00:09:42,790 --> 00:09:39,920
to throw these stories out there to get

234
00:09:43,670 --> 00:09:42,800
to see what kind of uh reaction uh would

235
00:09:45,750 --> 00:09:43,680
come about

236
00:09:46,949 --> 00:09:45,760
but we don't know if that's a true or

237
00:09:49,269 --> 00:09:46,959
not and then

238
00:09:50,870 --> 00:09:49,279
uh lo and behold we went back on the the

239
00:09:52,470 --> 00:09:50,880
lecturer circuit and

240
00:09:54,230 --> 00:09:52,480
went back to telling pretty much his

241
00:09:57,110 --> 00:09:54,240
original uh

242
00:09:58,310 --> 00:09:57,120
stories uh with the the additional

243
00:10:01,430 --> 00:09:58,320
details of

244
00:10:04,150 --> 00:10:01,440
business stellar planets and also free

245
00:10:07,509 --> 00:10:04,160
energy devices i remember he came to our

246
00:10:08,790 --> 00:10:07,519
a conference in san diego um with a

247
00:10:10,630 --> 00:10:08,800
trailer behind his car

248
00:10:12,550 --> 00:10:10,640
which he had driven all the way from the

249
00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:12,560
vero beach of florida it took him a next

250
00:10:17,269 --> 00:10:14,160
couple extra days to get there

251
00:10:21,030 --> 00:10:17,279
with a model of his saucer-shaped

252
00:10:24,389 --> 00:10:21,040
craft so we have heard scenarios like

253
00:10:26,230 --> 00:10:24,399
that before but what actual evidence

254
00:10:28,389 --> 00:10:26,240
do you have that that might be the case

255
00:10:31,990 --> 00:10:28,399
in this uh a very important

256
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:32,000
incident well one of the intriguing

257
00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:34,480
things which a lot of people either of

258
00:10:38,710 --> 00:10:36,560
overlook or don't even know is the

259
00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:38,720
the nature of the location rendelsham

260
00:10:41,750 --> 00:10:39,760
forest

261
00:10:43,829 --> 00:10:41,760
now a lot of people think it's just you

262
00:10:45,750 --> 00:10:43,839
know this sort of typical large

263
00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:45,760
english piece of forest which in one

264
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:47,279
sense it is

265
00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:49,760
but if you look at the history of the

266
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:50,720
area

267
00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:53,920
um going back to the 1930s just a

268
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:55,360
handful of miles

269
00:11:01,110 --> 00:10:58,800
um from rendering forest a secret

270
00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:01,120
organization was set up in the 30s

271
00:11:06,230 --> 00:11:02,880
called the tizzard committee

272
00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:06,240
which was um one of the first british

273
00:11:11,509 --> 00:11:09,279
um research projects into radar

274
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:11,519
then in the height of the second world

275
00:11:14,389 --> 00:11:12,480
war

276
00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:14,399
again just about four or five miles from

277
00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:15,760
rendelsham forest

278
00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:19,040
um there was a testing of a technology

279
00:11:22,150 --> 00:11:19,360
which

280
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:22,160
is still kind of very much very much

281
00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:23,200
under wraps

282
00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:26,240
um that actually sort of set the it was

283
00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:28,480
designed to sort of set the water

284
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:31,120
of the english channel uh localized

285
00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:32,720
areas in case the

286
00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:35,279
the germans tried to invade on the

287
00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:36,000
beaches of

288
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:38,480
england they would use this sort of

289
00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:39,120
strange

290
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:42,240
flame like technology and this occurred

291
00:11:46,230 --> 00:11:43,920
at a place called shingle street

292
00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:46,240
and if you google shingle street secret

293
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:47,120
experiments

294
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:49,519
you'll find a lot of material about it

295
00:11:54,790 --> 00:11:51,600
and then in the 60s there was

296
00:11:58,230 --> 00:11:54,800
other radar experiments in the area

297
00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:58,240
and marconi had a facility there as well

298
00:12:02,629 --> 00:12:01,200
now if you put all that together what

299
00:12:05,910 --> 00:12:02,639
you actually have

300
00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:05,920
as a situation where four or five

301
00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:09,600
of the biggest um most top secret

302
00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:12,240
experimental facilities on the east

303
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:13,440
coast of england

304
00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:16,560
were all um situated

305
00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:18,639
less than 10 miles from rendelsham

306
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:21,200
forest so in other words the whole area

307
00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:23,519
has been a hotbed of classified

308
00:12:28,190 --> 00:12:24,399
experiments

309
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:28,200
going back to the tiszard committee in

310
00:12:34,949 --> 00:12:31,920
1930s now on top of that

311
00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:34,959
um the as far as the hologram

312
00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:38,480
angle is concerned this store this angle

313
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:40,000
of the story has popped up

314
00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:42,639
here and there now and again quietly and

315
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:44,480
sometimes not so quietly the first

316
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:45,600
person who

317
00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:48,959
was told about this uh was ray beauche

318
00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:52,320
one of the um early researchers into

319
00:12:56,069 --> 00:12:54,560
rendlesham after it broke

320
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:56,079
in fact he's coming in our show in a

321
00:12:59,509 --> 00:12:58,000
couple of weeks yeah yeah he'll be on

322
00:13:03,430 --> 00:12:59,519
our show oh cool that's good

323
00:13:06,069 --> 00:13:03,440
yeah yeah yeah finally that's good

324
00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:06,079
well um ray was one of the first people

325
00:13:08,389 --> 00:13:06,480
to

326
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:08,399
address this he was actually approached

327
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:09,760
you might want to bring this up

328
00:13:16,790 --> 00:13:14,320
with him yeah absolutely yeah in 1991

329
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:16,800
he had a meeting with two departments of

330
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:19,120
defense u.s departments of defense

331
00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:22,959
um personnel who basically wanted to

332
00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:25,360
tell him the truth of rendelsham

333
00:13:29,269 --> 00:13:28,000
and he was told that yes it was a

334
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:29,279
hologram based

335
00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:32,320
operation like psychological warfare

336
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:35,040
mixed in with a little bit of mk ultra

337
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:36,320
next generation

338
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:39,199
mk ultra type technology to see how the

339
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:39,839
mind

340
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:43,760
of the people could be um transformed or

341
00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:46,880
changed or messed around with and to do

342
00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:48,160
so on the battlefield

343
00:13:55,069 --> 00:13:51,600
too um to freak out the enemy

344
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:55,079
and so i extensively um

345
00:14:02,150 --> 00:13:58,880
investigated this angle of ray's story

346
00:14:02,629 --> 00:14:02,160
and he told me also how he um spoke with

347
00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:02,639
his

348
00:14:10,949 --> 00:14:09,040
and how it really got into a strange

349
00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:10,959
situation where it seemed like he was

350
00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:12,560
under surveillance

351
00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:14,800
um because he'd been given this story he

352
00:14:19,509 --> 00:14:16,959
was digging into it even further

353
00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:19,519
and and then on top of that one of the

354
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:21,600
other areas which is intriguing

355
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:25,600
is that we know that the uh in the area

356
00:14:31,030 --> 00:14:28,639
on the time of the events um

357
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:31,040
a team was sent out from a place in

358
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:32,880
england called port and down

359
00:14:36,629 --> 00:14:35,600
and port and down is a top safety

360
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:36,639
facility

361
00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:39,199
which does research into actually in the

362
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:40,000
50s

363
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:47,040
like lsd tests and hallucinogens

364
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:50,000
things like this and one of the pieces

365
00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:51,440
of data that i found

366
00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:53,920
was that actually a team of scientists

367
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:54,880
and personnel

368
00:14:58,629 --> 00:14:58,079
from port and down came out to port came

369
00:15:01,829 --> 00:14:58,639
out to

370
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:01,839
render forest not while the events were

371
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:02,639
going on

372
00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:06,000
or in the immediate aftermath but they

373
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:07,120
were actually there

374
00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:10,000
before the events occurred and the the

375
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:11,120
story is

376
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:14,079
that they essentially set up the the

377
00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:15,440
situation

378
00:15:21,189 --> 00:15:18,880
and to allow this project to go ahead

379
00:15:22,069 --> 00:15:21,199
and for the victims which is probably

380
00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:22,079
the best

381
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:25,279
way to describe them unfortunately

382
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:27,920
the idea was to lure the guys into the

383
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:28,800
woods

384
00:15:32,230 --> 00:15:31,839
and to see how they would respond to

385
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:32,240
this

386
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:35,600
combination of holograms and mk

387
00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:38,639
ultra type hallucinogens uh from port

388
00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:40,880
and downs so there's a lot of

389
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:43,279
new material which for me at least you

390
00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:44,959
know sort of pushes it

391
00:15:50,189 --> 00:15:48,160
still further down that pathway of

392
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:50,199
an experiment rather than

393
00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:52,240
extraterrestrials

394
00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:54,399
now now do you think that uh of course

395
00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:55,360
we have

396
00:15:58,870 --> 00:15:58,480
uh a lot of uh a few participants that

397
00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:58,880
are

398
00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:00,880
well known to the public we have larry

399
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:03,680
warren uh we have jim penisteen

400
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:07,040
we have jim burrows

401
00:16:13,269 --> 00:16:10,079
and we have colonel

402
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:13,279
hall do you think that colonel hort halt

403
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:14,480
for example

404
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:17,600
was in on this

405
00:16:21,269 --> 00:16:20,399
no i don't i think the reason why the

406
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:21,279
program

407
00:16:25,110 --> 00:16:23,040
or these experiments or series of

408
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:25,120
experiments worked i think the reason

409
00:16:29,189 --> 00:16:26,320
why they worked

410
00:16:31,430 --> 00:16:29,199
is because the guys who were there and

411
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:31,440
who became part of it

412
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:33,920
were specifically not told you know i

413
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:35,120
think had they had

414
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:37,440
had they been told i don't think it

415
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:38,639
could have been

416
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:40,639
pulled off or you know some of them

417
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:42,079
would have spoken about

418
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:44,880
it being a secret experiment so i don't

419
00:16:48,069 --> 00:16:46,160
think they were

420
00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:48,079
involved i mean they were involved in in

421
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:50,320
the event but i don't believe they are

422
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:51,040
involved

423
00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:54,720
in sort of you know orchestrating all

424
00:16:58,550 --> 00:16:56,320
this i think it's the exact

425
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:58,560
opposite actually but i mean it's

426
00:17:03,030 --> 00:16:59,680
interesting when you bring

427
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:03,040
up those names because um when you look

428
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:04,559
at a number of the guys

429
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:07,760
who were we know over there for example

430
00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:09,520
i mean halt himself

431
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:13,120
talked about how he suspected that larry

432
00:17:17,829 --> 00:17:14,799
warren had had his mind

433
00:17:20,470 --> 00:17:17,839
meddled with and jim peniston

434
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:20,480
jim peniston talked about when the

435
00:17:24,549 --> 00:17:22,319
military were asking him

436
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:24,559
for his opinion on what happened you

437
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:25,760
know um

438
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:28,000
he was like basically given like a truth

439
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:28,799
drug

440
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:31,280
and and there are rumors of other

441
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:34,320
military personnel being subjected to

442
00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:37,919
um sort of sodium uh what's it called um

443
00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:40,160
the truth drug anyway yeah sodium

444
00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:42,880
pedestal yeah sodium potential yes yes

445
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:46,160
yeah yeah um and so when you look at the

446
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:46,960
story

447
00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:49,520
you have this thread going through the

448
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:51,039
story of rendelsham

449
00:17:55,110 --> 00:17:54,000
of some of the guys having their minds

450
00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:55,120
messed around with

451
00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:57,919
one way or another and again i think

452
00:18:02,789 --> 00:17:59,600
that's intriguing because

453
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:02,799
you rarely find that even in you know

454
00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:04,880
ufo case involving the military you

455
00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:06,240
don't find many of these

456
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:08,799
cases where suddenly you know sodium

457
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:10,559
pentothal pops up

458
00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:14,480
other truth drugs um you know and

459
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:17,120
from that perspective you can look at

460
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:17,760
those

461
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:19,840
questionings you know when they're under

462
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:21,840
sodium pentanol

463
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:24,960
to determine how accurate

464
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:28,400
and how successfully the experiments

465
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:30,240
worked you know if the guys said yes we

466
00:18:35,669 --> 00:18:33,120
saw this strange ufo and this

467
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:35,679
weird fog in the woods and lights in the

468
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:36,640
sky

469
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:40,160
then they gave them a good ability if

470
00:18:44,070 --> 00:18:40,880
you like

471
00:18:46,390 --> 00:18:44,080
to determine how successful the programs

472
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:46,400
were

473
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:48,480
okay so now could you point can you

474
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:50,320
point to any other cases

475
00:18:54,830 --> 00:18:52,480
uh where you think there might have been

476
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:54,840
a similar

477
00:18:59,510 --> 00:18:57,039
manipulation well yes

478
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:59,520
i mean if you look out um you know

479
00:19:03,669 --> 00:19:00,400
throughout

480
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:03,679
history of ufology of the last 50 60

481
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:05,919
years i mean there are a few cases that

482
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:07,919
fall into that

483
00:19:14,230 --> 00:19:11,440
particular category i mean people won't

484
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:14,240
uh probably like this when i bring up

485
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:20,950
well actually i mean yes but the one i

486
00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:23,039
was actually going to say right now

487
00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:28,000
was the um parker hickson case of 1973

488
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:31,679
in mississippi now what's particularly

489
00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:33,919
intriguing about that case

490
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:43,909
you know by the edge of the river just

491
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:45,520
like nine o'clock at night

492
00:19:49,750 --> 00:19:47,760
you know just fishing having a good time

493
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:49,760
they suddenly see this strange light

494
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:53,120
and then things go weird and they have

495
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:53,520
what

496
00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:56,720
appears to be like a classic um

497
00:20:01,270 --> 00:20:00,000
ufo alien abduction but one of the

498
00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:01,280
things i find

499
00:20:06,070 --> 00:20:04,240
intriguing about this case is that

500
00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:06,080
barely just a handful

501
00:20:11,830 --> 00:20:09,360
of miles from the area where they were

502
00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:11,840
fishing and where they were taken from

503
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:14,000
um is actually very close to a place

504
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:14,960
called horn

505
00:20:21,990 --> 00:20:18,880
island and horn island um

506
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:22,000
in the 1950s through the 60s was a

507
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:24,640
a classified area where a lot of

508
00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:25,520
research

509
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:28,880
was done again into hallucinogens

510
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:31,600
and my daunting technology and and

511
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:32,480
that's that's a

512
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:35,520
that's a factual uh piece of history

513
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:38,559
now you know we could say that it's just

514
00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:39,840
coincidence

515
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:43,679
that the hixson parker event occurred

516
00:20:48,070 --> 00:20:47,039
just a few miles from horn island or you

517
00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:48,080
could say

518
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:50,720
that's a classic example of putting the

519
00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:53,360
two pieces together and making four

520
00:20:58,710 --> 00:20:57,280
um and i mean the i haven't sort of dug

521
00:21:01,830 --> 00:20:58,720
deep very deeply

522
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:01,840
into the whole issue of um the

523
00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:03,679
interrupted journey

524
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:07,200
betty and barney hill john fuller etc

525
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:08,159
etc

526
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:11,120
but what is intriguing is that we know

527
00:21:16,750 --> 00:21:13,440
now through the freedom information act

528
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:16,760
but um excuse me but in the mid and

529
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:21,039
1950s um none other than john fuller

530
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:24,720
was actually uh briefed by uh military

531
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:25,520
intelligence

532
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:29,200
and the cia um about the

533
00:21:33,669 --> 00:21:32,240
then present research into things like

534
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:33,679
mk ultra

535
00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:37,440
and lsd he even wrote

536
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:40,480
yeah he even wrote that book about the

537
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:44,159
city in in in france where everybody

538
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:46,080
danced in the street and hallucinated

539
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:47,520
because they were eating

540
00:21:54,149 --> 00:21:52,159
the um the bread that had been tainted

541
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:54,159
yeah that's um yeah that's a little

542
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:55,200
village actually

543
00:22:01,909 --> 00:21:58,960
in france and um where in 1951

544
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:01,919
um something went severely weird in this

545
00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:02,880
little um

546
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:06,080
village in france and there were rumors

547
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:08,159
that it was actually like an aerosol

548
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:08,880
based

549
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:12,080
um deployment of hallucinogens

550
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:14,240
and again that it was done to see how

551
00:22:19,909 --> 00:22:16,720
quickly and how effectively

552
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:19,919
um effects could you know um

553
00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:22,000
change people's mindsets and some of

554
00:22:25,590 --> 00:22:23,440
them actually died

555
00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:25,600
others were in psychiatric hospitals for

556
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:27,039
days and weeks

557
00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:30,320
um and so in other words there are a

558
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:31,520
number of cases

559
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:35,200
within ufology that i'm suspective

560
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:37,520
you know i sort of suspect that they may

561
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:38,400
not be

562
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:39,919
what they appear to be now i wouldn't

563
00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:42,400
want people to think you know i've

564
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:44,960
sort of changed all my views on ufology

565
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:46,000
i haven't

566
00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:48,320
there's no doubt in my mind that there

567
00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:49,840
is a genuine

568
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:52,840
real unknown ufo phenomenon whether

569
00:22:57,029 --> 00:22:55,200
extraterrestrial multi-dimensional

570
00:22:58,390 --> 00:22:57,039
interdimensional i don't know but there

571
00:23:01,350 --> 00:22:58,400
is a real phenomenon

572
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:01,360
but what i think has happened is that

573
00:23:05,669 --> 00:23:03,600
agencies and departments

574
00:23:06,870 --> 00:23:05,679
they know there's a real ufo phenomenon

575
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:06,880
but at times

576
00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:09,039
they've sort of hijacked the real

577
00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:11,600
phenomenon

578
00:23:14,789 --> 00:23:14,240
yeah and it's done as a means to cover

579
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:14,799
up

580
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:17,840
their military experiments by using a

581
00:23:20,789 --> 00:23:19,919
ufo banner and because there's a real

582
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:20,799
phenomenon

583
00:23:24,789 --> 00:23:23,120
it works really well all right let me

584
00:23:26,390 --> 00:23:24,799
interrupt you let me interrupt you here

585
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:26,400
because we have to go to our bottom of

586
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:27,200
the hour break

587
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:28,720
when we come back we'll continue our

588
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:30,799
conversation with nick redfern

589
00:23:48,830 --> 00:23:46,549
now back to exploring the bazaar

590
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:48,840
with two of the most electrifying

591
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:50,640
researchers in the paranormal

592
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:54,000
your hosts timothy beckley and tim

593
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:00,549
welcome back to exploring the bazaar i'm

594
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:02,720
tim schwartz tonight our guest

595
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:05,760
is nick redfearn and nick we've got some

596
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:07,679
a couple of questions from our listeners

597
00:24:10,950 --> 00:24:09,919
but uh i wanted to ask you first before

598
00:24:13,830 --> 00:24:10,960
we uh

599
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:13,840
get into the questions why do you think

600
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:14,880
that if this

601
00:24:23,669 --> 00:24:20,400
was some kind of military experiment

602
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:23,679
why do you think that they used the ufo

603
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:27,440
scenario for this

604
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:29,840
well i think more than anything else it

605
00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:31,039
was because

606
00:24:34,070 --> 00:24:33,440
it was something that would really sort

607
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:34,080
of

608
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:36,080
have people you know just standing there

609
00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:38,240
with their mouths wide open

610
00:24:42,710 --> 00:24:41,679
and some of them certainly in a state of

611
00:24:46,149 --> 00:24:42,720
shock

612
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:46,159
what they were seeing and i think that

613
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:47,600
was the particular

614
00:24:51,510 --> 00:24:50,240
reason that they needed some kind of

615
00:24:54,070 --> 00:24:51,520
technology

616
00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:54,080
and actually not so much the the

617
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:56,400
technology what they wanted was to see

618
00:24:59,990 --> 00:24:59,440
the response to the experiments so in

619
00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:00,000
other words

620
00:25:05,430 --> 00:25:03,360
if they panicked and ran or fell to the

621
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:05,440
ground or started crying

622
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:07,440
or if they just stand there stood their

623
00:25:11,909 --> 00:25:09,840
ground and did you know what troops do

624
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:11,919
that's sort of you know defend

625
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:15,679
um their their fellow troops um

626
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:17,760
so i think that's the reason it was used

627
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:19,520
the the weirder

628
00:25:22,950 --> 00:25:21,840
the experiments the weirder the

629
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:22,960
holographs

630
00:25:26,470 --> 00:25:25,200
the more and more you can gauge the

631
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:26,480
extent to which

632
00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:29,600
the human mind can be messed around with

633
00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:30,799
and screwed with

634
00:25:37,190 --> 00:25:34,400
to the point where they are as i said

635
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:37,200
in a state of terror and of course if

636
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:38,640
that can be applied to your own

637
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:39,840
personnel

638
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:42,240
then that would give you a good idea as

639
00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:44,320
to how you could use that same

640
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:47,919
scenario say on the russians you know

641
00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:50,960
all right well um our listener cosmonaut

642
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:55,039
57 wants to know uh what is the latest

643
00:25:59,430 --> 00:25:58,640
on the binary code story and you'll have

644
00:26:03,350 --> 00:25:59,440
to

645
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:03,360
who may not be familiar with that

646
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:06,640
yeah well this particular angle of the

647
00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:07,919
binary code

648
00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:10,960
aspect of the rendersham case this

649
00:26:14,549 --> 00:26:12,080
actually relates to

650
00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:14,559
jim peniston and jim peniston was one of

651
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:15,360
the key

652
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:18,400
figures involved in the

653
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:20,320
event itself when it occurred in

654
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:22,320
december 1980

655
00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:24,720
and though you know there was a group of

656
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:26,640
people out there in the woods and he was

657
00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:27,760
one of them

658
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:31,120
and jim peniston um has this

659
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:34,480
um his aspect the one

660
00:26:37,990 --> 00:26:37,440
aspect more than any other um as it

661
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:38,000
relates

662
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:41,520
to his um involvement in rendlesham

663
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:44,640
revolves around this binary code angle

664
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:48,080
where he um was essentially as if or as

665
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:49,039
he felt

666
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:51,679
that um you know he had this sort of

667
00:26:56,549 --> 00:26:52,640
imagery

668
00:26:59,590 --> 00:26:56,559
and um scenario in his mind

669
00:27:03,110 --> 00:26:59,600
which suggested that the um

670
00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:03,120
rendelsham case was not a ufo event

671
00:27:07,510 --> 00:27:04,960
but was actually a case of time

672
00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:07,520
travelers human time travelers

673
00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:10,960
coming back to the 20th century from

674
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:12,080
whichever

675
00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:15,760
era they came from because um the future

676
00:27:22,230 --> 00:27:18,960
was supposedly a bleak and dark place

677
00:27:23,909 --> 00:27:22,240
and the human race was on a it was on a

678
00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:23,919
waning situation

679
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:27,279
and so they come back to um

680
00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:30,720
take dna uh cells etc

681
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:34,000
to try and beef up us in the future

682
00:27:38,230 --> 00:27:37,120
so in other words that is another

683
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:38,240
scenario

684
00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:40,880
um in relation to rendlesham you know

685
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:42,720
you've got the ufo angle the secret

686
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:44,320
experiment angle

687
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:47,200
time travelers um now they cannot

688
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:48,000
obviously

689
00:27:53,269 --> 00:27:52,000
all be correct and so in other words you

690
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:53,279
have to sort of

691
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:56,000
try and figure out which one actually is

692
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:57,279
i mean it's like roswell

693
00:28:01,990 --> 00:28:00,080
you've got aliens crash test dummies

694
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:02,000
russian balloons you know

695
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:04,640
secret american balloons they can't all

696
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:06,559
be correct but somewhere

697
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:13,510
here we go but uh peniston he didn't

698
00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:15,600
come out with that story to quite uh

699
00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:18,080
quite a while later uh after the

700
00:28:24,549 --> 00:28:22,950
yeah that's correct yes with the binary

701
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:24,559
code yes

702
00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:27,840
um which which makes you wonder if these

703
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:29,600
people are still being messed with

704
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:35,909
well i mean we never know for sure until

705
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:38,159
the people actually come forward and you

706
00:28:40,950 --> 00:28:40,320
know the the ones who may still be

707
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:40,960
meddled with

708
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:42,320
you know if they come forward and say

709
00:28:47,350 --> 00:28:44,480
yes i am or i've been told to

710
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:47,360
do this or that you know i mean um we'll

711
00:28:52,630 --> 00:28:49,200
never know unless they come forward

712
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:52,640
but um you know for me it's intriguing

713
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:53,520
that there are

714
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:56,080
so many different theories i mean i'm

715
00:28:58,950 --> 00:28:56,640
sure

716
00:29:00,070 --> 00:28:58,960
tim remembers that um when jenny

717
00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:00,080
randalls was up

718
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:02,080
and dot and brenda were doing their

719
00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:03,600
research um

720
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:06,640
there were rumors going about uh early

721
00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:07,200
stealth

722
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:10,640
woods um

723
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:12,960
there was talk about um portions of a

724
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:14,880
russian satellite coming down in the

725
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:15,760
area

726
00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:17,600
you know there was so many different

727
00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:19,279
theories and i have to think

728
00:29:24,389 --> 00:29:22,799
or wonder or suspect that at least some

729
00:29:27,990 --> 00:29:24,399
of these stories

730
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:28,000
were put out there to confuse everybody

731
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:30,640
by just swamping it with not just one or

732
00:29:33,350 --> 00:29:31,039
two

733
00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:33,360
theories or scenarios but like nine or

734
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:36,159
ten of them altogether

735
00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:39,200
now jeff in the chat room has asked if

736
00:29:43,590 --> 00:29:40,559
you've spoken to

737
00:29:44,230 --> 00:29:43,600
uh lieutenant colonel former lieutenant

738
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:44,240
colonel

739
00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:47,039
charles halt about all of this about

740
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:49,039
your ideas

741
00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:50,880
well the last time i spoke to charles

742
00:29:55,350 --> 00:29:52,080
holt um

743
00:29:58,549 --> 00:29:55,360
was round about 15 months ago

744
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:58,559
then this was in person um at a place in

745
00:30:02,389 --> 00:30:00,799
south texas called edinburgh there's a

746
00:30:04,389 --> 00:30:02,399
conference that's put on there

747
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:04,399
every year called the out of the world

748
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:05,440
conference

749
00:30:09,510 --> 00:30:08,880
and um we were both speaking um at that

750
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:09,520
event

751
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:11,760
last year around about march i think it

752
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:12,880
was or april

753
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:15,440
and um you know we got talking as you do

754
00:30:19,269 --> 00:30:16,799
at conferences you know

755
00:30:21,029 --> 00:30:19,279
everybody has a few drinks and something

756
00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:21,039
to eat you know and hang out

757
00:30:25,029 --> 00:30:23,360
and so it's very much sort of um not

758
00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:25,039
just about the conferences you know it

759
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:25,840
was a good

760
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:29,279
um hangout type situation as well

761
00:30:34,630 --> 00:30:32,559
and i found it intriguing that um

762
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:34,640
when we got into the issue of larry

763
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:36,720
warren because there's been a lot of

764
00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:38,960
controversy about larry in the last

765
00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:40,080
couple of years

766
00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:42,559
but um but charles holt told me he still

767
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:44,399
felt that at some point

768
00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:47,600
larry's mind had been meddled with so i

769
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:49,600
find that kind of fascinating thing

770
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:51,360
yeah but if you remember if you remember

771
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:53,200
in the beginning he didn't

772
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:55,200
he's claimed that larry warren was not

773
00:31:00,230 --> 00:30:57,440
even stationed on the base

774
00:31:01,430 --> 00:31:00,240
at the time which turned out to be a

775
00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:01,440
fabrication

776
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:04,720
but of course he was now i think

777
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:06,960
and i i you know i i understand that

778
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:08,799
there's a conflict now between peter

779
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:10,480
robbins and larry and i

780
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:13,440
try to keep my friendship with with both

781
00:31:17,509 --> 00:31:14,399
of them uh

782
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:17,519
for sure but uh back uh during

783
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:20,559
the uh the time of the ufo flap uh over

784
00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:23,440
westchester uh in new york you know the

785
00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:24,559
triangles and all

786
00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:26,960
there was this a meeting at the brewster

787
00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:28,240
middle school

788
00:31:33,029 --> 00:31:30,880
and larry warren stood on the stairs of

789
00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:33,039
that

790
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:36,320
middle school in front of myself and

791
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:39,200
betty hill and maybe about 30 or 40

792
00:31:42,789 --> 00:31:39,840
people

793
00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:42,799
and told that story for the first time

794
00:31:47,350 --> 00:31:44,240
and he's never backed

795
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:47,360
down on it if it was not for larry

796
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:50,000
uh the case probably are there's a good

797
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:51,440
possibility that the case would never

798
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,320
have been made public

799
00:31:58,149 --> 00:31:56,240
yeah that that's true that is true i

800
00:32:00,070 --> 00:31:58,159
mean if you look at the timeline of

801
00:32:01,190 --> 00:32:00,080
you know the whistleblower he was the he

802
00:32:03,269 --> 00:32:01,200
was the whistleblower

803
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:03,279
he gave somebody else the story they

804
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:04,799
sold it to the news of the world and got

805
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:05,919
paid like uh

806
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:09,360
what was it that 10 or 15 uh

807
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:12,399
100 pounds or something on it and

808
00:32:16,630 --> 00:32:14,559
larry made nothing on it he's never as

809
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:16,640
far as i can tell ever profited on this

810
00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:18,960
because how do you really profit on it

811
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:21,440
they wrote a book but it uh i guess it

812
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:23,440
made it to the top of the charts in

813
00:32:28,470 --> 00:32:26,080
england but that's not uh like a lot of

814
00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:28,480
copies like you would have here you know

815
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:30,880
well yeah actually the book um is not

816
00:32:35,909 --> 00:32:32,159
available now it's

817
00:32:38,310 --> 00:32:35,919
it's been taken down by the publisher um

818
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:38,320
and that peter wanted that done so that

819
00:32:41,509 --> 00:32:39,840
that was taken down

820
00:32:43,269 --> 00:32:41,519
i mean you can still get copies

821
00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:43,279
obviously but

822
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:46,080
not but the publisher um you know

823
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:46,559
doesn't

824
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:49,679
um still put copies out there directly

825
00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:51,840
itself you know you'd find it in

826
00:32:58,389 --> 00:32:55,360
in used bookstores oh yeah oh absolutely

827
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:58,399
yeah but um but yeah i mean i

828
00:33:01,590 --> 00:33:00,559
sort of go back to the you know the the

829
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:01,600
caller's um

830
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:05,360
question um yes as i said i did speak to

831
00:33:11,509 --> 00:33:08,399
um charles holt the most recent time

832
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:11,519
um about 15 months ago and he and he was

833
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:14,159
still talking about that angle of larry

834
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:16,480
at somehow having his mind meddled with

835
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:17,279
and as we said

836
00:33:24,389 --> 00:33:20,399
earlier earlier in the show that

837
00:33:27,990 --> 00:33:24,399
angle of um you know my manipulation

838
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:28,000
um sodium pentothal mk ultra type

839
00:33:32,389 --> 00:33:28,960
spinoffs

840
00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:32,399
there's so many aspects of mind-altering

841
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:33,440
technology

842
00:33:38,310 --> 00:33:35,679
that sort of permeates throughout the

843
00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:38,320
rendelsham case

844
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:41,760
well speaking of of mind control

845
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:45,600
um some of the

846
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:48,240
victims participants you know however

847
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:49,760
you know however you want to refer to

848
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:50,320
them

849
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:53,200
you know later came down with various

850
00:33:57,909 --> 00:33:54,640
kinds of

851
00:34:01,269 --> 00:33:57,919
physical ailments which makes me wonder

852
00:34:05,310 --> 00:34:03,909
they had been exposed to say like

853
00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:05,320
microwave or

854
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:08,320
electromagnetic uh types of

855
00:34:13,109 --> 00:34:11,200
of of radiation which we know that uh

856
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:13,119
the cia with their mk ultra

857
00:34:21,190 --> 00:34:17,760
and and other uh types of research were

858
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:21,200
experimenting with those and uh and and

859
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:24,240
uh our listener cosmonaut 57 you know is

860
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:25,679
asking about the uh

861
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:28,879
marconi uh mystery deaths which

862
00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:31,440
could be you know fall right into the

863
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:34,240
same kind of categories

864
00:34:37,990 --> 00:34:36,320
you know it's funny that um you should

865
00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:38,000
uh bring that up

866
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:40,320
because there's a place in not too far

867
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:42,079
away from rendelsham forest

868
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:45,280
uh models from heath where research was

869
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:47,119
actually done

870
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:50,879
at that facility um by um

871
00:34:53,990 --> 00:34:52,560
some of the people who worked with

872
00:34:57,270 --> 00:34:54,000
marconi and

873
00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:57,280
actually talk about um one of the people

874
00:35:02,150 --> 00:34:59,839
in the book who died under mysterious

875
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:02,160
circumstances and who actually

876
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:05,040
worked not too far from rendelsham

877
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:05,599
forest

878
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:08,800
so um again you know you've got this

879
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:12,079
this sort of ongoing thread of secret

880
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:13,440
experiments

881
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:16,960
all surrounding um randallstrom forest

882
00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:17,520
in that

883
00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:20,800
particular location well

884
00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:22,640
and a lot of those scientists and

885
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:24,000
engineers i mean they

886
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:27,920
weren't they working um for the

887
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,560
strategic defense initiative for the

888
00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:32,560
united states or participating

889
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:35,839
in research along those lines

890
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,119
yeah that's correct um the sdi the

891
00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:41,280
strategic defense initiative of

892
00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:43,839
president reagan was you know in simple

893
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:45,520
terms it was referred to

894
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:47,680
a slang term you know it's like star

895
00:35:52,390 --> 00:35:49,280
wars and the plan was

896
00:35:53,750 --> 00:35:52,400
to have these um sort of laser

897
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:53,760
technology that would blast

898
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:56,640
russian missiles out of the sky and not

899
00:35:59,829 --> 00:35:58,400
a single one you know would reach the

900
00:36:02,950 --> 00:35:59,839
western world

901
00:36:04,390 --> 00:36:02,960
and um but what's intriguing was this

902
00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:04,400
situation where

903
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:06,720
a lot of these mark only scientists and

904
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:08,160
technicians

905
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:10,079
um some of them working in the us you

906
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:12,079
know so been going over there for a few

907
00:36:16,790 --> 00:36:13,680
months working

908
00:36:20,150 --> 00:36:16,800
but most of them based in the uk

909
00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:20,160
and between the early 1980s um

910
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:23,599
excuse me the early 1970s right through

911
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:26,880
to 1993 there was more than

912
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:30,000
30 scientists and technicians who died

913
00:36:34,470 --> 00:36:33,200
under really weird um circumstances just

914
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:34,480
like um

915
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:37,440
for example sudden suicides you know by

916
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:38,640
people who

917
00:36:41,670 --> 00:36:40,480
just had regular normal lives you know

918
00:36:45,349 --> 00:36:41,680
there's one guy

919
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:45,359
um got in his car going to work

920
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:48,240
then he suddenly stopped the car and got

921
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:48,880
out

922
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:51,440
um and he'd also got a rope in the back

923
00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:52,079
of

924
00:36:59,030 --> 00:36:56,720
the rope around his neck

925
00:37:01,430 --> 00:36:59,040
another one of them um attacked the

926
00:37:03,510 --> 00:37:01,440
other end attached to a street lamp

927
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:03,520
hit the accelerator and decapitated

928
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:04,560
himself

929
00:37:07,990 --> 00:37:07,119
um just bizarre stories like this and

930
00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:08,000
there were like four

931
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:11,040
or five who um killed themselves

932
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:14,400
um through common carbon monoxide by

933
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:15,760
you know sitting in the car with a

934
00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:17,920
garage door down and pipes

935
00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:19,760
tubes you know going into the car and

936
00:37:23,750 --> 00:37:22,240
killing them now in one case really

937
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:23,760
bizarre story

938
00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:26,880
um the the neighbors i could hear the

939
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:28,000
car going

940
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:31,440
and you know the engine um was rumbling

941
00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:33,200
the lights running obviously something

942
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:34,480
was going on

943
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:37,280
and so the police were on the scene and

944
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:39,920
quickly got the garage door open

945
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:42,800
and sure enough there was a tube going

946
00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:45,359
into the window and the guy was dead

947
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:48,000
but they couldn't find him it took like

948
00:37:54,150 --> 00:37:50,720
five minutes to find him he actually

949
00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:54,160
wasn't sat in the car he was lying prone

950
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:56,400
flat underneath the car you know you

951
00:37:59,829 --> 00:37:57,920
wouldn't think to look under the car and

952
00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:59,839
that's exactly what happened the police

953
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:01,680
were thinking well where is he you know

954
00:38:04,069 --> 00:38:03,119
he's not in the driver's seat and they

955
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:04,079
found him

956
00:38:07,829 --> 00:38:06,720
flat under the car and there was so many

957
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:07,839
bizarre

958
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:10,160
suicides and weird deaths surrounding

959
00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:11,920
all those marconi people

960
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:14,400
you know when you've got more than 30

961
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:15,280
across

962
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:19,440
27 28 years then you have to think that

963
00:38:24,150 --> 00:38:22,480
were they sort of um with their minds

964
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:24,160
sort of stimulated

965
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:26,640
by possibly something like a manchurian

966
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:28,400
candidate type situation

967
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:30,320
you know you use a trigger word or

968
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:31,920
something like that and it's up the

969
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:34,240
person snaps into a completely

970
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:37,520
different mindset well you know it

971
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:40,240
and and you know as well as i do that

972
00:38:44,790 --> 00:38:41,920
there has long been rumored that

973
00:38:47,190 --> 00:38:44,800
uh at the uh at the time both the united

974
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:47,200
states and the soviet union

975
00:38:51,910 --> 00:38:50,720
were basically having a mind control war

976
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:51,920
with each other

977
00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:54,800
uh using various uh techniques uh

978
00:38:58,230 --> 00:38:55,680
against

979
00:38:58,710 --> 00:38:58,240
scientists and military personnel you

980
00:39:01,750 --> 00:38:58,720
know

981
00:39:03,829 --> 00:39:01,760
back and forth and this to me sounds

982
00:39:05,430 --> 00:39:03,839
very much like one of those type of

983
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:05,440
situations

984
00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:07,760
with rendelsome then being you know like

985
00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:08,960
i guess our side

986
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:11,760
with an experiment to see uh what we

987
00:39:17,829 --> 00:39:12,800
could do down

988
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:17,839
down the road with uh soviet russia

989
00:39:21,750 --> 00:39:19,839
yeah you're right and i think um you

990
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:21,760
know the more you look into this the

991
00:39:27,109 --> 00:39:24,960
more you begin to realize that um

992
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:27,119
you know what we thought passed for

993
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:29,040
ufology actually

994
00:39:33,910 --> 00:39:32,160
isn't technology isn't ufology or at

995
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:33,920
least parts of it aren't

996
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:36,560
some of it is sort of you know created

997
00:39:41,430 --> 00:39:37,839
technology

998
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:41,440
using the ufo motif as a camouflage as i

999
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:42,000
said and

1000
00:39:48,790 --> 00:39:45,359
um and it's sort of a classic way

1001
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:48,800
of hiding secret military

1002
00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:51,760
technology and and projects you just

1003
00:39:55,109 --> 00:39:52,960
place it

1004
00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:55,119
under the cover of something else and if

1005
00:40:00,310 --> 00:39:57,040
somebody comes looking

1006
00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:00,320
you always aliens you know

1007
00:40:06,150 --> 00:40:03,599
yes it's always aliens so now okay this

1008
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:06,160
this this book came out in april and

1009
00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:08,240
what's what's the reaction been

1010
00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:11,440
uh after after you published it

1011
00:40:17,829 --> 00:40:14,960
well that's a good question i mean

1012
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:17,839
throughout april and may i was sort of

1013
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:20,800
nearly every day i was sort of doing

1014
00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:24,079
q and a's radio uh and also you know

1015
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:27,440
there was numerous debates on facebook

1016
00:40:31,109 --> 00:40:28,720
and elsewhere

1017
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:31,119
what people thought about it and for the

1018
00:40:35,750 --> 00:40:32,960
most part i was sort of

1019
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:35,760
perceived as being you know the next

1020
00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:37,920
worst thing to like saddam hussein you

1021
00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:40,240
know how dare you say this nick and

1022
00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:43,119
say that and you know other cia paying

1023
00:40:48,550 --> 00:40:45,359
you and all this nonsense you know

1024
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:48,560
but what i found fascinating

1025
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:52,640
was the sheer defensive nature of so

1026
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:54,160
many of these people

1027
00:41:00,870 --> 00:40:58,480
um who weren't even a given

1028
00:41:02,630 --> 00:41:00,880
we're getting we weren't even going to

1029
00:41:05,589 --> 00:41:02,640
give you know

1030
00:41:07,510 --> 00:41:05,599
even a thought about this or even look

1031
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:07,520
at it from the perspective or maybe nick

1032
00:41:11,829 --> 00:41:08,720
has got it right

1033
00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:11,839
no they were just so defensive and

1034
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:14,079
this just cannot be this cannot be the

1035
00:41:17,829 --> 00:41:15,680
answer we don't want to know

1036
00:41:19,910 --> 00:41:17,839
and in some cases it really was like

1037
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:19,920
that they just did not want to know

1038
00:41:23,829 --> 00:41:20,880
because

1039
00:41:24,630 --> 00:41:23,839
of the whole angle of destroying belief

1040
00:41:27,430 --> 00:41:24,640
systems

1041
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:27,440
and and that tells you a lot as well you

1042
00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:28,800
know when you've got

1043
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:31,680
structured strong belief systems and

1044
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:34,000
then they come tumbling down

1045
00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:37,119
people either go tumbling with them or

1046
00:41:41,109 --> 00:41:39,920
they deny it and that was something you

1047
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:41,119
know that cropped up

1048
00:41:46,630 --> 00:41:44,880
time and time again and as i said the

1049
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:46,640
which you know another one that asked

1050
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:48,720
them pops up in ufology

1051
00:41:53,109 --> 00:41:50,800
you know as i said that issue well

1052
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:53,119
nick's you know working for the cia

1053
00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:56,079
or the nsa or whatever which is you know

1054
00:42:00,870 --> 00:41:56,560
it's

1055
00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:00,880
wrote the book

1056
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:03,760
because i felt the data was strong

1057
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:04,560
enough

1058
00:42:10,630 --> 00:42:07,920
to go down that particular avenue

1059
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:10,640
and to write a book that demonstrated

1060
00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:12,720
why i thought it was a secret experiment

1061
00:42:17,109 --> 00:42:14,000
you know there was no

1062
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:17,119
hidden agenda it was well i think this

1063
00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:18,240
is what it is so

1064
00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:20,720
why not tell people but the problem is

1065
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:23,440
ufology is very much like a religion

1066
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:26,160
it's belief driven and people don't like

1067
00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:27,200
their beliefs

1068
00:42:34,790 --> 00:42:31,359
questioned they're separate sacred cows

1069
00:42:37,990 --> 00:42:34,800
uh slaughtered so to speak

1070
00:42:38,470 --> 00:42:38,000
um we only have really you know just

1071
00:42:40,150 --> 00:42:38,480
just

1072
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:40,160
a handful of minutes left in the show

1073
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:41,760
but i just i want to ask you real quick

1074
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:42,560
about the uh

1075
00:42:48,870 --> 00:42:44,960
book that you've got coming out uh uh

1076
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:50,630
well yeah that's my other big interest

1077
00:42:54,550 --> 00:42:52,319
beyond ufology

1078
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:54,560
is cryptozoology which is the study of

1079
00:42:58,150 --> 00:42:56,560
unknown animals you know like big four

1080
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:58,160
to the chupacabra

1081
00:43:02,470 --> 00:43:00,720
the yeti things like that and um i've

1082
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:02,480
got a new book coming out next week

1083
00:43:08,950 --> 00:43:04,319
called monsters of the deep

1084
00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:08,960
and um it's a study of lake monsters sea

1085
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:10,960
serpents

1086
00:43:13,990 --> 00:43:12,880
huge fish that were thought to be

1087
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:14,000
extinct

1088
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:15,920
for millions of years but which actually

1089
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:17,760
aren't extinct

1090
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:21,839
um and legends of things like the kraken

1091
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:24,640
and um and so it looks at the whole

1092
00:43:27,990 --> 00:43:25,280
issue

1093
00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:28,000
of water-based monsters and it's

1094
00:43:32,710 --> 00:43:30,400
published by visible ink press and

1095
00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:32,720
it runs to about 400 pages so it's a

1096
00:43:38,470 --> 00:43:34,000
large

1097
00:43:41,589 --> 00:43:38,480
sort of encyclopedic type book

1098
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:41,599
that's a big book i didn't realize

1099
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:42,960
yeah i didn't realize there were that

1100
00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:44,720
many uh uh uh uh

1101
00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:47,920
lake and uh sea monsters out there well

1102
00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:49,200
i mean when you look at it you know

1103
00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:52,000
everybody thinks of like ogopogo

1104
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:54,240
uh champ and the loch ness monster

1105
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:56,160
they're sort of the most famous

1106
00:44:01,270 --> 00:43:59,280
um lake monsters but throughout the

1107
00:44:03,670 --> 00:44:01,280
world you know you can find

1108
00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:03,680
light monster stories in canada in

1109
00:44:07,750 --> 00:44:04,720
russia

1110
00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:07,760
much of south america and you know

1111
00:44:11,750 --> 00:44:10,480
in some cases i think they could well be

1112
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:11,760
unknown animals

1113
00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:14,640
some of them could be um creatures that

1114
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:16,640
we assume have become extinct

1115
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:19,440
but are still around and and some of

1116
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:20,480
them may be just

1117
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:23,760
animals that science has not classified

1118
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:27,599
at all yet um but i'll sort of address

1119
00:44:31,990 --> 00:44:30,000
not just the cases but some of the

1120
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:32,000
weirder and lesser known

1121
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:34,079
um aspects of these stories like for

1122
00:44:37,349 --> 00:44:35,040
example

1123
00:44:38,470 --> 00:44:37,359
um aleister crowley for a number of

1124
00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:38,480
years had a house

1125
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:40,560
at loch ness uh called burlesque in

1126
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:42,400
house and he performed all sorts of

1127
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:43,920
rituals and rights

1128
00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:46,400
at loch ness and so this has given rise

1129
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:48,800
to some researchers they think the

1130
00:44:52,950 --> 00:44:52,319
the creatures that um that live in loch

1131
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:52,960
ness

1132
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:55,680
could be more supernatural based rather

1133
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:57,119
than flesh and blood

1134
00:45:00,710 --> 00:44:58,640
so you know you've got the the

1135
00:45:02,470 --> 00:45:00,720
connections with crowley and the

1136
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:02,480
the idea that some of these creatures

1137
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:04,000
are supernatural

1138
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:07,359
rather than just unknown and um

1139
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:09,839
so there's a lot of weird unknown

1140
00:45:12,790 --> 00:45:10,720
aspects or

1141
00:45:14,230 --> 00:45:12,800
or lesser-known aspects and so with the

1142
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:14,240
book i've sort of

1143
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:18,079
split it into um things like giant squid

1144
00:45:22,950 --> 00:45:21,839
and giant octopus um sea serpents lake

1145
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:22,960
monsters

1146
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:25,520
uh and also things looking like some of

1147
00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:27,119
the the reptilians

1148
00:45:30,630 --> 00:45:28,880
and you know from the from the

1149
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:30,640
perspective of reptiles obviously

1150
00:45:34,790 --> 00:45:32,160
spending a lot of time

1151
00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:34,800
in water as well so all right well

1152
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:36,000
that's fantastic i look forward to

1153
00:45:38,550 --> 00:45:37,760
reading that dick when uh when it comes

1154
00:45:41,829 --> 00:45:38,560
out

1155
00:45:44,470 --> 00:45:41,839
minutes left in the show

1156
00:45:45,750 --> 00:45:44,480
well you know i just want to um remind

1157
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:45,760
people that we've been uh

1158
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:48,240
fairly active uh tim ourselves we've

1159
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:50,480
been very busy uh

1160
00:45:54,550 --> 00:45:53,119
publishing two or three books a a month

1161
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:54,560
we have one out by

1162
00:46:01,190 --> 00:45:57,839
uh sean casteel which

1163
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:01,200
delves into biblical prophecy armageddon

1164
00:46:06,150 --> 00:46:04,240
and the marian phenomena but not so much

1165
00:46:07,150 --> 00:46:06,160
from a religious point of view but from

1166
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:07,160
a

1167
00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:17,680
is doing

1168
00:46:21,990 --> 00:46:20,000
very well and i keep getting emails on

1169
00:46:24,309 --> 00:46:22,000
that all the time wondering when you

1170
00:46:25,030 --> 00:46:24,319
might be working on another volume like

1171
00:46:27,270 --> 00:46:25,040
that and

1172
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:27,280
i know we're starting to put together uh

1173
00:46:32,069 --> 00:46:29,520
well i guess i can reveal the title ufo

1174
00:46:33,670 --> 00:46:32,079
spin doctors

1175
00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:33,680
yeah that's that's that's that's going

1176
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:34,960
to be a good one i'm looking forward to

1177
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:35,680
that

1178
00:46:41,829 --> 00:46:39,520
and then of course the diane testmen's

1179
00:46:42,550 --> 00:46:41,839
transformational uh book which goes into

1180
00:46:46,069 --> 00:46:42,560
her

1181
00:46:48,069 --> 00:46:46,079
uh life story uh you talk about the

1182
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:48,079
future man and time travel she's written

1183
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:50,800
a book on the other subject and uh

1184
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:53,119
this will be her life story about her

1185
00:46:56,069 --> 00:46:53,920
many

1186
00:46:57,190 --> 00:46:56,079
contacts with tybus and other worldly

1187
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:57,200
beings

1188
00:47:00,550 --> 00:46:58,640
all right well we've got to wrap it up

1189
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:00,560
here tim so nick thank you very much for

1190
00:47:15,589 --> 00:47:14,309
you've been listening to exploring the

1191
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:15,599
bazaar

1192
00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:18,319
with hosts timothy beckley and tim

1193
00:47:21,990 --> 00:47:19,920
schwartz

1194
00:47:24,309 --> 00:47:22,000
they're taking back the night by jetting

1195
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:24,319
non-stop across the cosmos

1196
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:26,480
in search of the truly bizarre and

1197
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:28,160
totally unexplained

1198
00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:31,599
with you as their coal miners thursday

1199
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:32,880
nights at 7 pm

1200
00:47:39,270 --> 00:47:35,920
pacific 10 pm eastern

1201
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:39,280
on the kcor digital radio network

1202
00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:41,520
for more information on exploring the

1203
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:42,720
bazaars

1204
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:44,960
and hosts timothy beckley and tim

1205
00:47:49,750 --> 00:47:47,680
schwartz check out their kcor digital

1206
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:49,760
radio network

1207
00:47:56,870 --> 00:47:52,960
follow their youtube channel at mr

1208
00:48:07,440 --> 00:47:56,880
ufo 1100 exploring

1209
00:48:18,829 --> 00:48:07,450
the bazaar